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2005.04.29

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» Christian Reedits of Films? from Idiotprogrammer
Filmbrain discusses Bush's law to allow altering of films by DVD companies without the studio's permission. More discussion of the bill here (also slashdot, boingboing, etc). As obnoxious as this Christian reediting seems to purists, I say more p... [Read More]

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Jay Blanchard

OTM James--it reminds me of what Stan Brakhage used to say when asked about people adding music to his deliberately silent films: it's fine if they want to collaborate with an image, but don't advertise it as "a film by Stan Brakhage", because it isn't. It's essentially the same as ripping a corner off of a painting or breaking a chunk off of a sculpture--it is no longer the same work.

As a filmmaker, I find it absolutely disgusting that a person can alter a director's work that he/she has spent two or more years of his/her life working on, rip it to shreds, alter the original meaning COMPLETELY by removing the most poignant imagery/dialogue, and still have the gaul to profit from the director's name and the film's name. Yet filmlovers who download a torrent of an out-of-print film are deemed criminals?

If the bill that's being proposed passes, it's a sad day for freedom of expression & simply proves the ugly, anti-intellectual path this country is taking by being lead by a bunch of Nazi swine advocating a BS conception of "morality" in the name of Christ.

"The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure, while the intelligent are full of doubt." --Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)

Sarmoung

I don't quite understand the intricacies of the US political system, but you say this was passed unanimously? Do I take this to mean that not one single person of any political allegiance voted against it? (Obviously!) No one can be seen to oppose the "Family" after all. Here we'd probably have callen it Domestic and I doubt the Movie Act would ever have made it through.

Given that terrestrial TV has long been editing films (in the UK anyway) depending on the time they're shown, there's a precedent of sorts, but that's never been as specific as the examples above.

This is disturbing news. I'm holding back on the Anglo-Saxon.

Filmbrain

Agreed, LaD -- that was reductive. However (and this is perhaps getting off-topic) I do believe that our overly puritanical approach to nudity (let's not even mention sex) is responsible for unhealthy attitudes towards the body, the opposite sex, etc.

The kid who sees the edited version of The Hurricane will walk away believing he's seen the film, though a critical component to its story has been eviscerated. This has nothing to do with decency, or community standards -- it is a whitewashing of fact. I almost think it's less dangerous to ban something outright than to alter it in this way.

Filmbrain

Sarmoung --

Because the bill contained things like stiffer penalties for bootleggers, and funding for the National Film Preservation Board, it would look pretty bad to vote against it.

This is a standard tactic -- hide the more disturbing legislation in the midst of a larger bill containing safe material that nobody would vote against.

Films are edited for television here as well, but not in this fashion. Sex, language, extreme violence -- that gets cut out, but not the type of cuts these groups are making.

I had a look at ClearPlay's website, to look at the list of films that are filtered. Muppets From Space is one of them. What could possibly be offensive in that film?

la depressionada

fb you know i agree with you. i do. and i was just kidding re: reductive. i just thought john had an interesting point. you know what's funny, everytime you say hurricane i think of that movie with mia farrow c. 1972 or so. i have to think a minute to remember what you're referring to.

and as far as nudity and repression are concerned. you know REALLY agree. i advocate the french approach which somehow seems to necessitate a topless women in every rv commercial from fabric softener to steel radial tires. MUCH HEALTHIER.

la depressionada

TV commercial. sorry.

John

Every artist needs an audience. Sure, you can argue the solipsistic line that art is some kind of personal therapy, but then the artist is reduced to a therapist, isn't he? So every artist, as one who produces art for the sake of allowing someone outside himself to experience it, requires an audience to which his product can communicate and thereby ascend to the status of art. Simple enough.

Now if the audience has no interest in the artist's vision, they'll simply ignore his art. That art will become mere product, and the notion of artistic vision will be meaningless, since "vision" is simply a strategy to communicate with the (no longer existent) audience.

Therefore, to reform that product into something that people can enjoy, whether as art or as artless entertainment, can't be a distortion of an artistic vision that has already been rendered meaningless for lack of an audience. In fact, it's almost necessarily a good thing, because it makes something useful out of something useless. (The exception would be if there were something inherently bad about the thing that was produced, but it'd be difficult to argue that that's the case here without first taking on some of the earlier precepts of this argument. We'll move on.)

Now, all of this was pretty much argued in universal terms, which isn't true in the edited-DVD debate. But since there's still a free choice for consumers whether to buy the edited or unedited DVDs, then the argument stands but is restricted just to the edited-DVD crowd. We can assume they're not interested in the unedited DVD, so the artist's vision doesn't exist as far as they're concerned. Which means they can hack up the movie all they want in order to turn it into something they appreciate without causing any harm. The artist's vision only exists for those who are interested in appreciating it.

Sorry for the late-night ineloquence. But I think the argument's simple enough to survive the crude phrasing.

Robert Nagle

I don't know enough about this issue to have a serious opinion.

However, it would seem like a relatively simple matter for the studio to include several versions of the same film on a DVD. Let the Christian groups suggest their own edits and let consumers decide which version they prefer to watch. I think the big studios can negotiate licensing deals with companies if there's enough money in it.

Invalidating lawsuits from directors is a Big Bad. Dealing with legacy content is always a problem. But I'm guessing that current studio contracts include provisions of realtering. What am I getting at? These kinds of problems are self-correcting and generally don't need legislative interference.

Filmbrain

John/Robert --

I think there's a fundamental point being missed here. While the editing of language, extreme violence, and nudity might be understandable for TV/airplane standards, the removal of ideas, behaviors, and/or themes is something else entirely. When we watch, say, Jungle Fever and hear a character say "mickey fickey" we chuckle, knowing what the real term is. However, what if all traces of the interracial romance were edited out, and only the interracial conflict remained? (Conyers & co. use this example in their minority view.)

Directors probably aren't happy about editing for TV, but they've lived with it. However, there is a point where the editing is such that the film is no longer the vision of the person that made it in the first place. Films aren't just a commodity. (Well, some are.)

By your argument, should every specialty group be allowed their own edit?

The distortion of something useless into something useful is still a distortion, no matter how you look at it. Sure, some directors might not care, as long as they are getting a fat check. But many do, and that's the issue here.

The only true (and obvious) solution for Christians is to simply not watch these films. They are already making enough noise in Hollywood, trying to pressure studios to make more value-centric entertainment -- leave us heathens with the few dangerous films we have left -- things like Milos Forman's Amadeus, a film that contains (according to ClearPlay) the following cautionary thematic elements: Implied Premarital Sex, Revealing Clothing, Some Suggestive Dialogue, Bar/Club Environment, Implied Extramarital Sex, some Suggestive Dancing, Alcohol Consumption, Dysfunctional Relationships.

Bar/Club Environment? Maybe they were watching the Falco video by accident.

dvd

Slightly off topic, Filmbrain, but your mentioning of Amadeus reminded me of another perplexing trend that's resulted from the moral majority sticking their fingers into filmmaking - consider that Amadeus, once a PG film, is now rated R. Likewise (if I remember correctly) with THX-1138. Signs of regression are everywhere.

JoJo The Chimp

I'm actually not familiar with ClearPlay and what it can do, and how it's used (and by whom), but I'd love to see what it's default settings do to The Exorcist (The Version You've Never Edited). Would "The power of Christ compels you" be taken as a vain reference? This sounds insidious as all hell, and I'll have to read up on it. Thanks for the overview. May Phoebe's breasts fly free!

Robert Nagle

It's really hard to take this company seriously:

For My Cousin Vinny: Revealing Clothing Some Suggestive Dialogue
Threatening Dialogue Alcohol Consumption
Smoking Intense Thematic Elements
Murder Topic

Intense Thematic Elements? Murder Topic?

Before Sunrise:
Non-Sensual/Non-Crude Sex Talk Thematic Sexual Situation(s)
Implied Premarital Sex Some Suggestive Dialogue
Alcohol Consumption Smoking
Bar/Club Environment Mature Thematic Elements
Intense Thematic Element

Implied Premarital Sex? Wait, did I miss something? I wish it were possible to sanitize these people's bibles while they're at it.

SPEED:
Thematic Elements and Related Content in Movie:
Revealing Clothing Threatening Dialogue
Intense Action/Adventure Intense Life/Death Situations
Disaster Themes Martial Arts Action
Scary Moments Non-Graphic Injury/Wound
Alcohol Consumption Smoking
Bar/Club Environment Mature Thematic Elements
Intense Thematic Elements Murder Topic

Wait, Bar/Club Environment. Weren't they on a fricking bus the whole time?

BABE:
Thematic Elements and Related Content in Movie:
Implied Premarital Sex Implied Extramarital Sex
Revealing Clothing Some Suggestive Dancing
Some Suggestive Dialogue Alcohol Consumption
Smoking Bar/Club Environment
Mature Thematic Elements Divorce Topic
Dysfunctional Relationships

Revealing Clothing? And I thought I was the only one turned on by all that sexy porcine flesh! Suggestive dancing? Did the cats dance the lambada while I ducked out to use the restroom?

Filmbrain

Non-Graphic wound - "Ouch, my soul!"

John

Actually, yeah, Robert, you did miss something -- the scene in the park at the end of the night, which provokes the great discussion in Before Sunset over whether they had sex.

Filmbrain: Yes, every specialty group should be allowed to do whatever it wants with its own movies. The films themselves may not be commodities, but the DVDs people buy certainly are. Yes, it's a distortion of the "true" film. But like you said, "there is a point where the editing is such that the film is no longer the vision of the person that made it in the first place." Nobody's pretending that the edited version is the same movie as the director's version. But it's still a movie, and if people want to buy it and watch it, let them. Heck, if I were interested enough to actually sit down and watch some ClearPlay movies, maybe I could make a case for their superior artistry. You never know.

Here's a related tickler: Is Marcel Duchamp's Mona Lisa not art, as it's an edited -- bastardized, really -- version of the artist's original? If you say that it's not, well, a lot of turn-of-the-century art critics might agree with you. But then Dada must have been one heck of an influential non-art movement.

Filmbrain

John --

What somebody wants to do in the privacy of their own home with their DVDs is their business.

Should the government pass laws to allow for-profit companies to do this? No.

Bringing the Dadaists into the fray is a bit of a cheap shot. It's apples and oranges, really. Nobody would, or could, ever mistake Duchamp's work for the original, nor is it presented as such.

The bill that protects ClearPlay is not about artistic expression, but rather of legitimizing the Christian right's position.

Do you think parents sit down and tell their kids that the version of Babe they are about to watch is not as the director intended?

ronen

The Phantom Edit isn't illegal.

It's illegal to sell a copy of it.

That's all.

Filmbrain

Are you sure Ronen? I could have sworn that the creator of the original was slapped with some sort of cease and desist order, even though he had no plans on selling it. I thought the studios said it was a "derivative work" and therefore a violation of copyright.

John

Better yet - I have a part time job sweeping at the cinema and I don't like the way you looked at me.

So I'm going to detain you, make a cup of coffee then (maybe) call the cops, with no criminal or civil liability for otherwise infringing upon your civil liberty.

Perhaps even tomorrow when you come with you date, since it doesn't specify time period.

John

Your arguing about Roman Polanski reminds me of the arguments of the evangelists that persecution is good for the church. True, there are merits to this, look also at Milos Forman or ANDREI TARKOVSKY, they worked through censorship, but it's not an environment we should create if we can help it.

Roy Geebiv

Interesting line from the Minority Views section:

"The bill’s proponents would have us believe that this bill is about whether children should be forced to watch undesired content, but it is not. The issue in this debate is who should make editorial decisions about what movie content children see: parents or a forprofit company."

It is interesting because the parents who purchase these DVD players are, by doing so, making an editorial decision about what they want their children to see, and are being opposed by the big for-profit film companies who are saying, in essence, that those big for-profit corporations should have the sole editorial decision...

I say, if you object to this technology, then don't purchase it. Problem solved.

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